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Episode 135

The Effectiveness of Audio

Nielsen finds radio paired with TV can boost ROI by 20%. Podcast ads deliver 70% recall and drive purchase action for 22% of listeners immediately after hearing an ad.

This week, Elena, Angela, and Rob explore why audio is such a powerful marketing tool. They share how Marketing Architects' roots in radio shaped their advertising philosophy, explain why sound creates lasting memories and emotional connections, and discuss the future of audio from smart speakers to AI-driven experiences.

Topics Covered

• [03:00] How early radio work shaped Marketing Architects' approach

• [07:00] Campaign that proved the power of testimonials in audio

• [13:00] Four ways brands can use audio to build distinctive assets

• [17:00] Brands getting sonic branding right today

• [22:00] Advantages and disadvantages of podcast advertising

• [27:00] Where audio advertising is heading in the next five to ten years

Resources:

WARC Study

2025 eMarketer Article

Today's Hosts

Elena Jasper

Chief Marketing Officer

Rob DeMars

Chief Product Architect

Angela Voss

Chief Executive Officer

Transcript

Elena: Hello and welcome to the Marketing Architects, a research first podcast dedicated to answering your toughest marketing questions.

I'm Elena Jasper on the marketing team here at Marketing Architects, I'm joined by my co-host Angela Voss, the CEO of Marketing Architects and Rob DeMars, the Chief Product architect of Misfits and Machines.

Rob: Hello.

Angela: Hello.

Elena: We're back with our thoughts on some recent marketing news, always trying to root our opinions and data research and what drives business results. Today we're talking about the effectiveness of audio. We'll dive into how audio fuels, memory, emotion, and action, share how our roots in radio shaped our own advertising philosophy, explain why brands that invest in audio assets from Sonic Logos to podcasts are setting themselves up for long-term growth. But first, I'll kick us off as I always do with some research, and I have two different pieces to share today. I am gonna start with one from Warc.

This is a study titled What We Know About Radio and Audio Effectiveness. Radio and Audio are often overlooked, but the evidence shows they're very effective. Nielsen Finds Radio delivers some of the best ROI in media and paired with TV, that ROI can jump by 20%. On top of that audio, often captures more attention than TV or even social. Podcasts especially stand out for recall and brand choice and creativity plays a big role. 30 seconds is the sweet spot for recall, while 15 seconds helps reinforce ads with music, multiple brand mentions and clear calls to action perform better. And positivity is key. When ads make listeners feel good, they're more likely to drive both short-term action and long-term brand effects.

We're also seeing new opportunities, interactive audio, like smart speaker ads where we can respond with our voice. Those formats create stronger memory and engagement, especially when listeners say the brand name out loud. And with streaming and voice devices growing, Sonic branding is becoming essential for recognition. So audio isn't just a secondary channel. It's measurable, engaging, and it's one of the most cost effective ways to build brands. Of course, we'd still say TV's number one, but I also have a quick summary of a second piece of research. This is from eMarketer. This one's titled Podcast Ads Turn Listener Attention into Measurable action. I didn't wanna leave podcasts out here because they're proving to be one of the most powerful ad channels out there.

Nielsen found that podcast ads boosted brand awareness by 10 points, drove higher information seeking and purchase intent, and delivered recall for 70% of listeners. Importantly, audiences actually like them. They tend to find them authentic, natural, and less intrusive than other ad formats, and the impact goes beyond awareness. 22% of listeners take immediate purchase action, 90% say they've taken some action after hearing a podcast ad, with engagement this high, especially among Gen Z and millennials, podcasts are becoming a critical investment for brands. So we are a TV agency today, but our roots are in radio. So I think we're pretty qualified to cover this topic on the show. Rob, could you get us started? How did Marketing Architects early work in radio shape the way we still think about audio today?

Rob: Yeah. Gosh, it's crazy to think back to the early two thousands when we were a hundred percent radio and back then radio was still largely seen as a branding channel, right? Because of its reach and frequency and not really seen as a performance channel. And that's when we stepped in and just became audio mad scientists, really determined to prove it could do both. It could be a branding channel and a performance channel. We built tracking systems with over 80,000 unique 800 numbers and embedded inaudible watermarks into the spots so we could detect airings.

And we had copywriters who we'd describe as building these portfolios of radio commercials, like Wall Street brokers would build portfolios and they'd look at the performance in real time and go, oh, look at how doing this with the audio versus this would make a difference. We studied everything. What types of voiceovers work best for which products? Like how a British accent could drive twice the response on a language learning product than on the exact same script. We would A/B test sound effects to trigger the brain in the first five seconds of the radio commercial.

And which sound effect would drive greater response. We found that sonic priming, like putting a particular phone ring before an 800 number read would drive additional call volume. We even A/B tested the cadence of how you would read a phone number. That's how nerdy we were. But what it did at the end of the day is it really taught us to honor audio and all the levers that it brought to the table, not just in radio, but obviously now with TV, with streaming and every other channel where audio can really carry a story.

Elena: So we did a lot. A lot of tests, maybe the most tests any company was doing in radio at the time. Honestly, I know we were the largest holder of 1-800-NUMBERS next to AT&T. So something tells me that we were pretty far up there.

Rob: We're pretty nerdy.

Elena: Yes. What lessons from those early radio campaigns still hold true today?

Rob: Well, this is a controversial one. I don't know if this is gonna answer your question exactly, but this is a controversial one because I think it encompasses the learning, and that is that we found that the best performing radio creatives, 90% of the time, we could take those and they would become the best performing television commercials. It was just an incredible pretesting platform, and really why is that? Well, by going through that process, it really forced you to look at all of the fundamentals. Does the commercial have a great grabber? Are you speaking the name and not just showing the name in your TV commercial?

We've talked ad nauseam on this podcast about how the majority of television commercials are heard and not seen because of second screen viewing. Well, that just forces you to look at all of those fundamentals. The jingle, how important using a sonic brand is at the end of your commercial. So, you know, if you can at the end of the day listen to your TV commercial, and it's a great radio ad, you've really checked a lot of boxes along the way. So that's kind of one of the most fundamental things I think that we learned is it really just forced this checklist of best practices when we transitioned from radio into television.

Elena: I suppose it's a little surprising, but you're still going after the same audience and having a similar message. And we still believe in pretesting today. It's just in a little bit of a different form. We've worked with probably hundreds, maybe a thousand different companies on radio campaigns. Could you share a campaign from our history that you think really showed the power of radio?

Rob: One of them was for a beauty cream where radio really allowed us to go wide in trying to uncover what would be the most powerful testimonial approach that you could use. And when you think of testimonials, you initially go, it's probably gonna be the user of the product, or it's gonna be their best friend. And we really walked in the waters of very different testimonial pools, but at the end of the day, we found out it was the guys in their life that were doing the testimonials, that was a magnitude in performance better. And you wouldn't necessarily go there naturally, 'cause it's almost insulting to go, I don't care what my guy thinks.

You know, if you focus grouped that type of approach, it probably wouldn't go over very well. But I gotta tell you, absolutely launched the brand. We could never beat that spot, even when we brought it into television. It was a game changer for that advertiser. So, yeah, I'll never forget that. We wouldn't have been able to do that had we not had the flexibility of radio and just recognizing at the end of the day, you didn't even need to see the people. It was the audio. It was the emotion that you can convey in those testimonials for a beauty product of all things, right? But it was the voices. It was the emotion that you could tap into with that theater of the mind that made it possible.

Elena: Wow. That is one of those things where it's a good example of focus groups not always being that effective because you gotta think that wouldn't have gone forward. It wouldn't have made it past a focus group, but it worked. When I see, I post and talk a lot about TV online, and I often see people that are talking about audio effectiveness lamenting that audio is undervalued, it's overlooked when you compare it to TV or some of the digital marketing channels and social channels that we're all excited about. Why do you think that is when the data shows that it still delivers such a strong ROI?

Rob: This is nothing new. Audio, radio in particular has always been called out as the ugly sister in the media mix. There was an ad that was done, a trade ad by a radio production studio in Minneapolis and it was a portrait picture, and they basically took the same model and they duplicated it over and over. Back then they had to use Photoshop, not AI, to do something like this, obviously, but it was a funny family portrait of these just beautiful sisters. And one is pointing to one saying TV. Another one's pointing to another one saying Print. And then the poor model, they put like buck teeth on her.

They put these big thick Coke bottle glasses. Her hair was all frayed and they pointed to her and it said Radio, and it just struck a chord. It won a lot of awards in Minneapolis, 'cause you're just like, oh, it's just so true. Right? Everybody just looks at audio. It's the ugly sister. But...

Angela: I don't think that's the saying. I think it's the redheaded stepchild. I don't think we called, we never called radio the ugly sister.

Rob: No, no. It's the ugly sister. And I think at the end of the day, people, they undervalue what they can't see. You can't hang a radio campaign on the wall of your office. So it just has that inherent, because it's super powerful, because it's audio, it's the flip side of it, which is you can't really put it in your pocket.

Elena: So it doesn't feel quite as tangible as like a big TV commercial or an amazing print ad, but it works really well. Like sound is very effective. Like we said before, at even triggering memory, you might not think that, you might think that something like TV or an ad you can visually see is gonna stick with us. So why is sound so effective?

Rob: It's sneaky, right? Sound has that way of really sneaking past your normal defenses and triggering those really deep seated memories. It really attacks your emotion, your attention and your memory structures. Our ears have a way of holding onto sounds for a few seconds giving us the brain that extra time to encode them. That's why a jingle can transport you back to your parents' kitchen back in the nineties. It's primal. It's really amazing when you think about the fact that our ears never shut off. Even when you're sleeping, your ears are busy, bringing stuff into your brain. So audio is a way of really creating mental tattoos in people. On their brain, not on the person, not on their arm, but on their brain.

Elena: Well, speaking of things sticking in our brains, we love distinctive assets, obviously as an agency and marketing effectiveness fans, and I think that audio distinctive assets are somewhat overlooked or a missed opportunity for brands. So Ange, what are the different ways that brands could use audio to create distinctive assets?

Angela: For sure. Yeah. A lot of creative ways. I think that we can be using audio, but like four more obvious examples would be owning a sonic logo. We call those mnemonic. So that would be a short, repeatable sound or musical phrase that works like a visual logo for your ears. Helps people instantly connect the cue to the brand and helps speed to that mental availability. Second would be repeating a verbal tagline or slogan. Many brands have a tagline or slogan, but you often just see them used visually only. So this would be Red Bull. It gives you wings. You always hear it gives you wings. You never hear Red Bull without it gives you wings. It's just that brief spoken line tied to a brand idea, helps listeners quickly remember and associate with you. Third would be just a consistent voice print. So something like Geico's, the Geico, obviously that's a distinctive asset and the use of character, but also just the voice is very distinctive, this friendly British accent.

If you hear that on the radio, you've heard it enough, you know that's the gecko. So by using the same narrator or vocal style across campaigns, repeated exposure to a recognizable voice just builds that familiarity and helps audiences know it's you before they even hear the brand name. And then I think the last one that is fairly commonly used, although I would agree with you, Elena, I think it should be used more, is just distinct music or instrumentation. So something like this is a little bit of a blend, I guess, just blending character again, but Liberty Mutual's not their Sonic logo. Not Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, but Limu Emu and Doug is very distinct. Sorry, everyone that had to hear me do that. But just reusing that same theme or owning a unique track to create that fast recognition and just sort of that emotional anchor.

Rob: Yeah. Red Bull gives me the burps, but I'm still waiting on the wings part, you know.

Angela: Well, but right. So it didn't work for Rob, but for the rest of us.

Elena: No. But lots of opportunity. And even now, if you start to notice this, if you watch really effective commercials, you can start to notice that it goes beyond just a jingle. A lot of brands have like certain music tracks or it seems like a lot can be effective. Ange, do you think we know that like a Sonic logo is so effective at the end of a TV commercial? The thought of having a sonic identity, certain sounds associated with your brand, is that needed by everybody today? Is it only certain types of brands? Like, can you think of reasons why a brand wouldn't pursue something like this?

Angela: Yeah. I really challenged myself to come up with a case where it doesn't make sense. I kind of went back to what does a Sonic Identity do? If we're saying, does every brand need it? Okay, so what does it do? It creates that instant brand recognition. It heightens mental availability. These repeated, distinctive audio elements make the brand easier to recall in buying situations. And strengthens those memory structures just like a visual logo would do.

It creates this emotional connection, and so for a brand that does any marketing, why would you turn those things down? So I don't know if you guys could come up with a reason, but I was like, I don't know that I can, for a brand that's doing marketing and not just a brand that's sales driven or what have you, maybe more product led or something like that. But...

Elena: We just were talking about how memorable all these sounds are, and maybe every brand should just have one. We can't really think of a reason why not to. Can we think of a brand sound or a jingle that just instantly brings back associations for us?

Angela: I go right back to my childhood home when I hear, gimme a break. Gimme a break.

Rob: That's a good one.

Angela: Kit Kat.

Rob: Break me off a piece of that Kit Kat Bar. Elena's like, I have no clue what you guys are...

Elena: I know.

Angela: You have to know Kit Kat. Oh yeah.

Rob: I have one that I can literally smell when I hear this jingle, I can smell this jingle. See if you guys can finish it. The best part of waking up...

Angela: Is Folgers in your cup.

Rob: Can't you just smell the coffee when you hear that?

Angela: Yeah.

Elena: Yeah, I can see the red of that brand and...

Angela: Totally.

Elena: Good distinctive assets, for sure.

Angela: What about you, Elena?

Elena: Yeah. Mine is, I don't know if I think of like a jingle from my childhood, I know this isn't quite a jingle, but I always think of the Tootsie Pop commercials where they had that crunch sound.

Angela: Totally.

Elena: Like just the crunch, that owl eating the Tootsie Pop. Always think about it.

Rob: You know what's interesting? All three examples also, in addition to being a highly memorable sound, involve a ritual. Right? So break me off a piece of that Kit Kat, that's a ritual, right? You buy, you break it. Morning coffee is a ritual and then the Tootsie Roll pop, that's just part of the experience, right?

Angela: Absolutely.

Elena: We did that nerd alert on rituals and how they're a really effective part of brand strategy. So yeah, if you can associate a Sonic logo or a sound with a ritual, it's probably even more effective. There we go. See, Rob remembers the nerd alerts. He pays attention.

Rob: I do.

Elena: All right. How about a brand that we think, so those are good past examples, from childhood. What about a brand today that we think is really getting sonic branding right?

Angela: Yeah, I can go first. So this, I wanna see if you guys can guess this one. This would be a brand that if you say the sonic branding element once, you are talking about a food. If you say it twice, you're talking about a brand.

Rob: Oh my gosh. Eminem? Like M&M? But it's not a Sonic logo. I don't know. Oh, that's a tough one. I'm so curious now.

Angela: It's like a riddle.

Rob: Riddle me this Batman. Come on.

Angela: I'll say it then. You'll get the brand. Pizza. Pizza.

Rob: Ah, good one.

Angela: And the reason, I mean, it's good, but the reason I would say they're doing it really well is they have stuck with it like Pizza Pizza originated back in 1979. It was just to promote a two for one deal and it went away for a little bit, but it was revived in the 2000s and they still use it today.

Rob: This is how dumb I am. It isn't until this moment that I made the connection that Pizza Pizza is because they do the two pizza thing. I never thought of that.

Elena: I didn't know that.

Angela: What?

Elena: I didn't know that.

Rob: Never thought of that.

Angela: Well, that's the power. You didn't even need that. You didn't even need that tie, and you still...

Rob: One of those revelations, like when you realize the Beatles is spelled with a, b, e, a, t, like beat. I didn't, I'm like, what? Wait a minute. Oh, it is.

Elena: Gotta believe what a smart marketer. Shout out to whoever brought that back. Yeah.

Rob: Because maybe 'cause we, you and I both didn't make the...

Elena: Well, it's still effective. It's still...

Rob: That's true. I...

Elena: Also, that means they could take away the two pizza thing maybe.

Rob: That's true.

Angela: They totally could. Yeah. Yep.

Rob: Just one. Just one.

Angela: Just one pizza.

Rob: Still works. They've embedded it enough. We'd still get it. Oh.

Elena: All right, Rob.

Rob: Oh, wow. Okay. So I think I've mentioned this one in the past, but I'd literally start to salivate when I hear this audio mnemonic and not because I'm hungry for food, it's 'cause I'm hungry to binge watch a show. Da-dum. When I hear that Netflix, it's just, it's so good. And when you think about it, it's not dumb science they're using. They didn't just pick a sound. It really does a great job of being ownable and being very high contrast in your living room. It really competes well with the other sounds in the room. It's almost startling. But gosh, it's like ringing a dinner bell.

Angela: You get excited?

Rob: I do.

Elena: Nice. I had trouble with this one 'cause there's a lot of sounds I love, like I love Arby's. We have the meats. I always sing that one. I think Burger King has got some great sounds. I've noticed the recent McDonald's commercials have a new sort of soundtrack in the back. Oh, that sounds really nice. Buffalo Wild Wings. I love their roar that they do at the end. That's so fun. You know what I'm talking about where the buffalo makes like a roar sound.

Rob: I don't know that one.

Elena: Oh, you don't?

Angela: I know what you're talking about, but one thing I'm realizing as we're just throwing these examples out, a ton of food. Like I think Netflix is the only one, or I talked about Limu Emu. But lots of...

Elena: I do have an example that's not food. I went down the rabbit hole a little bit and Rob, I'm surprised you didn't say this one, but you've been out on Apple recently. But they are really great with their sonic branding, like even their, the marimba ringtone that's used in different movies. Like it's just the classic phone call sound now. I didn't know this Rob, I bet you know this 'cause you are an Apple nerd, but they have this sound called Sosumi. Have you heard about this sound?

Rob: I've seen it as a dropdown.

Elena: Yes. So that's like the error sound. You'll still hear it on your Mac. If you, it's like the thing sound. So that came out of, it's actually a legal joke. So in the 1980s, Apple was in a legal battle with the Beatles came up again, the Beatles, which their corporation was called Apple Corporation, and they were battling them over music related trademarks. And so Apple sound designer Jim Reekes, he created this new alert sound and Apple's lawyers were like, okay, you can create this sound but it can't be musical 'cause they were in these lawsuits. And so he named it, so sue me.

Rob: That's awesome.

Elena: Yeah, it shipped with every Mac and it's still in use today as an error sound. It's the oldest sound Apple still uses. First shipped in 1991, which I thought was impressive, but Little Caesars kind of blew that outta the water. And then another fun fact, and I'll be done. When you turn on your Mac, that sound it makes, that started in 1998. They briefly retired it in 2016 and people had like a mini revolt and then they brought it back in 2020.

Rob: Tim Cook to do that. He'll get rid of the Sosumi. Watch, he'll be the guy. Jeepers.

Elena: I think it's so funny. Yeah, those are really good. Those are good stories.

Rob: Those are really good stories.

Elena: Yeah. Well, we are recording a podcast right now, so we can't not talk about podcasts. And what do you think are the advantages and disadvantages of podcasts as an ad channel?

Angela: Yeah, I think the three of us are major podcast lovers, not because we're on one, but just major consumption group here. Definitely a powerful mix of trust for advertisers, along with some precision too, because listeners often have a deep affinity for their favorite hosts. Brand messages delivered in host read spots feel authentic and credible. Although they can be done really poorly too. I think we've all experienced that, where you're just totally off script and off-brand. But podcasts allow for interest based targeting, which is interesting. Shows cluster around niche topics so advertisers can align messaging with category entry points.

And the medium encourages focused listening, I think with fewer distractions than most digital feeds, potentially even TV. So a lot of benefit, I think. Spoke to some of the benefits earlier as well. The challenge, the space is very fragmented. It makes it harder to buy at scale efficiently, and measurement remains inconsistent. Downloads don't equal people. Last click tracking undervalues impact. Ad loads I think seem to be climbing, which could reduce attention and make placements really important. Pricing on premium shows has risen, and there's just less brand control with live reads, which can end up deviating from scripts. So opportunities, but some, just like any medium comes with challenges as well.

Elena: Yeah, I do remember reading that though. These live reads, you have less control, but I believe they're a lot more effective than the inserted ads. Another audio format I thought we should cover is interactive audio because things like smart speaker advertising, that seems to be becoming more popular. Rob, how do you see that rising or changing things in the next few years?

Rob: You know, it's such an interesting space and brands are needing to have some really interesting conversations around what their voice is gonna sound like in these spaces, right? Your brand standards, you're usually thinking of your fonts and your colors and you actually have to start to consider, well, what's the sound and personality of your brand when you bring it into the voice space? How does it encapsulate your brand value on a dimension you'd never really considered before? Is it authoritarian? Is it playful? Is it warm? Why is your brand interesting to talk to? I had an incredible experience just the other day.

I was going through the drive through at a Taco Bell and it was a total AI voice agent that took my order, and it did an incredible job. I was blown away. At the same time I was thinking about it going, what a missed opportunity, because it was a very nice, delightful voice. Just fine. But wow. If they would've, they need to have brand standards around what's the sound of this voice? Let's bring the brand into the experience. What kind of personality could this have? Could it tie in with one of their campaigns that they have going on right now? And of course, Sonic Jingle. Why wouldn't you have that going on in every drive-through experience? Every time you go through just one more repetition point to anchor to the brand experience. So I think it's exciting to think about in the future, how are we going to take our brands and bring 'em into that space. But it's happening even right now.

Elena: Oh my gosh. It'd be fun to think about what if brands, if they have a certain celebrity partnership, they could license their voice in their drive throughs. That'd be fun to order from somebody like that. That's great. I haven't had great experiences yet with those AI sort of service takers, so that's nice to know that it's improving.

Rob: I was blown away. 'Cause I've had the same experience at some other ones where they're just trying to, it's okay, good effort, but give me the human. This was incredible. And it recited the order, made sure I checked the screen. I feel like I could have said, squirt the taco sauce on with a smiley face, and it would've captured that in the order. It was good.

Elena: Wow. Impressive. Well, speaking of the future, if we had to predict where do we think audio advertising is gonna be going, where will it fit in the media mix, say five, 10 years from now? Ange, you wanna start us off?

Angela: Yeah. I think the pie is shifting. It's not exploding. I think we're really excited about audio. I wish the rest of the world was as excited, but most forecasters see total audio ad spend, roughly flat. AM/FM of course is shrinking, but you've got digital audio and podcast that's growing, that's offsetting that. But I do think it has a growing opportunity as a smarter reach engine that stitches together those in between moments. Our commutes, in between work, workouts, across AM/FM, streaming and podcasts with tighter links I think to our commerce experience.

I think things we're gonna start to see more and more of, people level planning as car operating systems, smart speakers, your logged in apps, unify identity. Dynamic AI versioned creative. We talked a little bit about that. I think retail and local closed loop attribution is gonna become more and more prevalent. Shoppable and voice activated paths, whether that be add to cart or send me a code. And then I think sonic branding as kind of table stakes for scaled advertisers. It's just such an untapped opportunity with a channel with so much reach. So yeah, it might not be exploding, but definitely a ton of opportunity.

Rob: I love talking about the future because there's no accountability. I can just say whatever I want right now and be completely wrong. So I'm gonna totally go out on a limb and I'm probably gonna be wrong, but I think that audio is going to be the channel in five to 10 years. And what do I mean by that? I'm not even sure what I mean by that. When Sam Altman and Jony Ives are getting together to reimagine what the device is gonna be in the future, I think UI/UX is gonna be completely changed. And we are gonna be conversing with our technology more than we ever have in the future. And that's gonna fundamentally change how we advertise to people. And I, again, I have no idea what it's gonna look like, but I do think that audio will be the cream filling in the Twinkie of the marketing ecosystem.

Elena: Yeah, I heard recently that OpenAI is really focused on that, and if you haven't spoken to your ChatGPT, it's really amazing the conversation you can have with it already. No, I think that's super interesting Rob and yeah, interesting stuff too. Ange, I was thinking about this and I had a couple of things. One thing I could see with audio is all this talk of hyper-personalization. These contextualized ads, I think could become very popular with audio just because we know as an agency that's the easiest to customize right now is audio and voices. Video's a bit harder. And I do think we'll have that too.

I think that podcasts with real people, like video based podcasts are gonna be popular because a lot of our content is going to be AI created, which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing. And I think we could all have like our own personal AI podcast that interests us. Maybe ChatGPT, I know they're talking about delivering a daily summary. Maybe they'll deliver your daily podcast to listen to. But I still think that content is gonna become, there's gonna be a lot of it and a lot of it's gonna be similar, so things like real people talking and getting to know someone personally I think will still be popular.

But yeah, Rob, I am definitely excited to see those new form factors. I was asking Tetro this and one thing it came up with which I thought was really interesting was just how we've had different form factors with like our watches and rings, but like AirPods and audio could become something too that we use for health data. And just like interacting with the world, you could constantly be having some sort of audio experience. That's fun to think about.

Rob: Totally.

Angela: Absolutely.

Elena: To wrap us up here, if you could have any celebrity voice narrate your life, who would it be and why?

Angela: This was like one of the hardest questions I think you've ever asked us for a fun wrap up. I'm like, God, how would I choose my, I went with Emma Stone. I love Emma Stone. She's warm, she's witty, she's playful. She has versatility, I think, which my life has. So I went with Emma Stone.

Rob: I've jokingly called myself on this podcast, Snoop Rob. So I thought, why not have Snoop Dogg? Because, 'cause quite honestly, my life isn't that interesting? But I think if he read it, it would sound a lot better.

Elena: If you've never seen this, there's a video of Snoop Dogg, he's narrating this nature video of a lizard. Have you ever seen this video?

Rob: No. That's gotta be great.

Elena: It's funny. Oh, it's so funny. Or his dressage commentary is really funny too. Oh, it's one of my favorite videos. I'm gonna send it to you. Both great answers. I thought about Emma Stone too, Ange, because she just has a great, unique voice. I ended up choosing Anne Hathaway. I find her very soothing. I feel like I usually need to be talked down on a day-to-day basis. And she reminds me of Princess Diaries. I feel like if she was narrating my life, I think it'd be a nice contrast to the inner turmoil. So I enjoy, I like her a lot and she just has a great voice. She can sing, she can be light, she can be serious. She's got some good range.

Rob: Multi-talented, for sure.

Angela: For sure. Great ones.